Women in the church
This was my post to Jill Stanek today on a subject that might get a lot of people hot under the clergy collar!
| Jill,
This has been something that I have had issue with for years! When I was first married, I played the role of subservient wife and woman. There were quite a few things that I did not speak up about in our first years of marriage because I was to be a helper to my husband. I was content with that roll until I realized that if I would have spoken up and told my husband my views on a few things, we may have not been in a bad situation. (Not that I don’t make bad choices.) That was just the beginning of my walk through this issue of roles of women in the church, being pastors/teachers/etc. I was feeling very confused about my role in the church and one day… I went to the premier of the Esther Veggie Tales video. Through this child-like video, I saw a girl (veggie) that thought she couldn’t do this impossible thing. But God gave her strength and purpose and she crossed over the lines of customs and rules… and accomplished something great for God and his people. It was something in those animated eyes looking at me in the end and saying something like… maybe this could be you! I cried at the end and thought that God does have a plan for me. It might be for something great or it maybe something small… but I have purpose and significance!!! I no longer felt the chains of what the world was saying I had to be but what God wanted me to be. Some years later… I think it all came to a head when my husband was nominated and elected deacon of the church we were attending. I was so proud of him but at the same time wondered why couldn’t this job be held by some very godly women in the church? Women had filled every job imaginable in our church except being deacon and ministering to other men. They were even allowed to go over seas as missionaries and be ministers to women and men, but not here. Then there came the deacon meetings. They sometimes were out until midnight or later. They started to figure out that they might be neglecting their families, so they had a meal before they met and the kids were looked after by babysitters and the women were to figure out what they could do to serve the church as deacon wives. Then the families without the husbands would go home. But… the husbands would still stay out until midnight or later with careers the next morning to get up for. When you asked your husband how everything went… they could tell you what they talked about and you could give them council on what you thought and they might take that to the next meeting. They were also assigned a certain number of families and if one of them were female… we would have to go and visit them. Are you getting the idea of the hypocrisy of this all? We ended up leaving that church because they burned up my husband and never took his suggestions. For me… I was just fed up with the roles that the sexes had to play there. I want to write more to you, with scripture, to give all of what I write a Biblical foundation for what I have to say next. This post is already too long so if you would like, I can write something on our website on this subject so it doesn’t fill up your space. I’ll post a link to it so you can click on it. Thanks for listening, Jill and others. |
Here is the rest of the post that I can’t really don’t do justice to. I just don’t have huge amounts of time to get into ALL the different aspects of this post. I will try to hit a few.
In Genesis 2:20 it says:
| 20So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field. But for Adam£ no suitable helper was found. |
Here she was like Adam in the image of God… unlike the beasts. The word for helper here is ‘ezer which means “helper, support, assistant.†This same word is used many times throughout the Old Testament in Ex 18:4; Duet. 33:7, 26, 29; Pss. 20:2; 33:20; 70:5, etc… none of which is an inferior or subordinate.
In Genesis 3:17b-19 it says:
| 17To Adam he said, “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. 18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. 19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.†|
Notice what it says about what is cursed. Later it talks about the snake who is cursed. Does it say that Eve (woman) would be cursed to have Adam (men) to rule over her? NO, it doesn’t. But they are the consequences of the fall. In my opinion… a foresight into what was going to happen now that sin took over man’s/woman’s heart. Was this God’s plan? NO, it was not. Stay with me now… since sin has come into the world, man’s/woman’s heart has been selfish. Wouldn’t you say that is a very opposite of what Christ is? We see it all the time throughout history and even today. Classifying people in our minds and hearts to have a selfish, inferior look on others. The church is no stranger to this. Look at the Pharisees! They were their own gods! Why should we feel surprised to learn that it happens today?
Let’s talk a little bit about culture. You cannot dismiss what culture was for woman and how they were treated in the old and new testament. I guess my favorite illustration of the hypocrisy of men and women is the one about the woman who was going to be stoned. How did Jesus view that woman? A sinner, yes… worthless, no. May I ask you a question about that story? Was the man not a sinner too who committed adultery with her? As far as we know… he could have been the one who turned her in!
Matthew 7:3-5 says:
| 3“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. |
The way I see it… we all fall short (as the verse says) and we should not look at each other as less or greater. You will be in danger of having the host sit you in a less comfortable spot if you try to put yourself at the head of the table.
One of the surprising things that I have encountered is other women shaming me for feeling that woman have just as important roll in the church as men! But this also happened in the New Testament to Mary and Martha. What did Jesus say to Martha? Did he compliment her on keeping a good home? No… He told her that Mary had the right idea to sit at Jesus’ feet. Which was something unheard of in Jesus’ earthly walking days. Where were the women supposed to be according to culture? Separate, uneducated, and quiet.
Which brings me to another point. Someone on Jill’s site said something about Paul telling the women to be quiet and ask their husbands. Yes… that is Biblical but don’t you see how the church was changing back then? Women… who were shunned to read or participate in Biblical teaching were now able to hear and speak and KNOW what the word of God was and who He was in Jesus Christ! It was as a huge light was going off and all of the sudden you heard the truth. Would you not have questions and comments on it? Their questions were disrupting the teaching about Jesus. That’s why Paul said… ask your husbands. They had a lot of catching up to do!!! They were hungry for the word of God!
Now let’s look at what Paul says about women as ministers. Well… I see in Galatians 3:23-29:
| 23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ£ that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. 26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. |
Notice it doesn’t say women to Sarah’s seed and men to Abraham’s seed.
Lastly… I would like to talk about the verses that men (and women) always refer to when they make the argument that women aren’t to be ministers in the church. You can find the passage in 1 Timothy 2:11- 15. It says:
| 9I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. 11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women£ will be saved£ through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. |
Again… he is talking to the women of those days who were just learning about God’s word. He did not want them teaching because they weren’t seasoned by the knowledge of God’s word yet. These two bible passages were not contradictory verses. Paul was steady in his teaching. He did not dis-allow Pricilla from teaching Apollos! Nor did he forbid other women from teaching. Like Mary, Tryphena, Tryphosa, and Persis.
There were so many women in the Bible that had very significant roles in furthering the church. As there were many men.
I personally think it’s time to stop classifying people and realize that we are all pond-scum compared to our selfless, loving Savior. Think of how Christ is. Why would he exclude women from teaching about Him because of their gender? I think that He is happy when male or female harvest the fields that are white. Don’t you? Because a woman might lead a man to Christ… do you think He would say, “well okay but… that woman will have two points off because she wasn’t supposed to witness to that man?†He is the seeker of mankind’s hearts, not their earthly shell. Praise be to God!
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